COOPER RIVER BASSMASTERS - FOSTER CREEK INFORMATION
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OleFisherman
Senior Member



USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:10:40  Show Profile Send OleFisherman a Private Message
Okay folks, finally after several phone calls to DNR at Fort Johnson and Columbia, and being referred to the coast guard, here's what I understand from the coast guard.

Foster Creek beginning at the mouth toward the naval weapons station "is restricted water" under the following circumstances:

You can transit the waterway, but you cannot:

1. Anchor a boat.

2. Fish any part of Foster Creek from a boat either anchored or trolling with a trolling motor or gas powered motor.

The Coast Guard representative I talked to said this information can be found on the NOAA Chart for this area.

DNR at Fort Johnson and in Columbia has no knowledge concerning this matter, but did say that the Coast Guard is the authority that sets the rules concerning waterways and has the authority to issue restrictions concerning waterways.

Anyone wanting to follow up concerning this information can contact the following:

U. S. Coast Guard Charleston
Waterways Divison
(843) 740-3180, extension 3337 (local call)

I talked to Petty Officer First Wilson.

Triton186
Administrator



USA
7520 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:21:13  Show Profile Send Triton186 a Private Message
I think it's always been a restricted area but never enforced.

See map and zoom in to Foster Creek: http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11527.shtml

Also,

(11) That portion of Foster Creek beginning at a point on the southern shoreline of Foster Creek at its intersection with Back River at latitude 3258'30", longitude 7956'33"; thence proceeding along the southern shoreline to the terminus of Foster Creek; thence back down its northern shoreline of Foster Creek to latitude 3258'34", longitude 7956'34"; thence back to latitude 3258'30", longitude 7956'33".

(12) Danger zone. That portion of Foster Creek beginning at the point of the southern shoreline of an unnamed tributary of Foster Creek at its intersection with Foster Creek at latitude 3259'16" N, longitude 7957'23" W; thence back proceeding along the eastern shoreline to the terminus of the tributary at latitude 3259'49" N, longitude 7957'29" W; thence back down the western shoreline of the unnamed tributary to latitude 3259'15" N, longitude 7957'26" W. The waters and associated marshes in this danger zone area are subject to impact by rounds and ricochets originating from a small arms range when firing is in progress.

(13) Danger zone. Those portions of unnamed tributaries and associated marshes of Back River and Foster Creek that are generally described as lying south of the main shoreline and extending southward to the northern shoreline of Big Island (U.S. Naval Reservation). Specifically, the area beginning at a point on the main shoreline which is the northern shore of an unnamed tributary of Back River at latitude 3259'19" N, longitude 7956'52" W, southwesterly to a point on or near the northern shoreline of Big Island at latitude 3259'11" N, longitude 7956'59" W; thence northwesterly to a point on the main shoreline, which is the northern shore of an unnamed tributary of Foster Creek, at latitude 3259'16" N, longitude 7957'11" W; thence easterly along the main shoreline, which is the northern shore of the unnamed tributaries of Foster Creek and Back River, back to the point of beginning at latitude 3259'19" N longitude 7956'52" W. The waters and associated marshes in this danger zone area are subject to impact by rounds and ricochets originating from a small arms range when firing is in progress.

(b) The regulations: (1) Unauthorized personnel, vessels and other watercraft shall not enter the restricted areas described in paragraphs (a)(1), (a)(2), and (a)(4) of this section at any time.

(2) Personnel, vessels and other watercraft entering the restricted area described in paragraph (a)(5) of this section, shall proceed at normal speed and under no circumstances anchor, fish, loiter, or photograph until clear of the restricted area.

(3) Personnel, vessels and other watercraft may be restricted from using any or all of the area described in paragraphs (a)(3) and (a)(6) of this section without first obtaining an escort or other approval from Commander, Naval Base, Charleston, when deemed necessary and appropriately noticed by him/her for security purposes or other military operations.

(4) Personnel, vessels and other watercraft, other than those specifically authorized by Commanding Officer, U.S. Naval Weapons Station, Charleston, SC, entering the restricted area described in paragraph (a)(8) of this section shall proceed at normal speed, and under no circumstances anchor, fish, loiter, or photograph in any way until clear of the restricted area.

(5) Personnel, vessels and other watercraft, other than those specifically authorized by Commanding Officer, U.S. Naval Weapons Station, Charleston, SC, entering the areas described in paragraphs (a)(9) and (a)(10) of this section are prohibited from entering within one-hundred (100) yards of the west bank of the Cooper River, in those portions devoid of any vessels or manmade structures. In those areas where vessels or man-made structures are present, the restricted area will be 100 yards from the shoreline or 50 yards beyond those vessels or other man-made structures, whichever is the greater. This includes the area in paragraph (a)(10) of this section.


Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/334-460-cooper-tributaries-charleston-19766845#ixzz1IqLsZuYV

Edited by - Triton186 on 04/07/2011 09:27:12
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OleFisherman
Senior Member



USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  09:56:26  Show Profile Send OleFisherman a Private Message
Good Information Fred, thanks. Guess they are getting more aggressive at enforcement.
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Triton186
Administrator



USA
7520 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  10:09:03  Show Profile Send Triton186 a Private Message
Naval Weapons Station is doing some research for me now. I spoke with the Physical Security Officer. They suspect it's a change becuase of going Joint on 1 Oct 2010, no hunting or fishing allowed on the Station anymore. However, they are checking with Waterfront Operations and are suppose to call me back.


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Smokey Bear
Senior Member



USA
1307 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  10:34:32  Show Profile Send Smokey Bear a Private Message
I say lets not poke the bear on this one. Apparently, they aren't too concerned about the local fisherman. If we bring it to their attention, they may place a gun boat out there.

"Well, what happen was......"

Edited by - Smokey Bear on 04/07/2011 12:57:44
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Triton186
Administrator



USA
7520 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  12:01:29  Show Profile Send Triton186 a Private Message
Just trying to avoid security incidents during our upcoming Opens. There's always been restricted signs posted along Foster Creek, but I though it was for the land around the creek, not the creek itself.
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OneArmedFish
Average Member



USA
636 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  12:51:30  Show Profile Send OneArmedFish a Private Message
The restricted water in the Cooper River is clearly marked as such. The water in Foster Creek is not marked in the same manner, therefore I agree with Smokey...let's not poke this bear too hard. It does sound like a "cowboy" MP, as I'm not sure it would be even reasonable for them to patrol that creek via water. It sounds like the person in question ran into an MP on the shore.

I agree with covering the bases for events on the river(there's so many club tourneys, opens, Thursday night events, etc out there), but I'm not sure this is a can of worms we need to be opening.
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Hardcore
Advanced Member



USA
5760 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  13:25:08  Show Profile Send Hardcore a Private Message
It's no different than the restricted areas in the Hatchery.If you go there and fish, and I don't because I know its restricted, then that's not fair...



"The People's Champion"
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RangerBob
Senior Member



USA
2703 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  13:31:50  Show Profile  Visit RangerBob's Homepage Send RangerBob a Private Message
I agree with Fred that it's probably related to the base changing hands. As a retired military member I have actually launched a small boat from the ramp on Foster's Creek, so I don't know why they would allow us to do that if the creek's restricted.

On a side note, that's some of SCBound's favorite flippin' grounds so maybe this will give someone else a chance!

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Triton186
Administrator



USA
7520 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  14:29:58  Show Profile Send Triton186 a Private Message
Best damn thread we've had on here in a long time!!

If anglers were chased out just yesterday, I'm not sure why we would just stand by and wait for something to happen later on, even if it was a cowboy MP. Chances are he's not going away. I rather be equipped with the facts than have to deal with it at the boat ramp.

The fact that Foster Creek has Naval Weapons Station land on both sides of it makes it reasonable for them to patrol the waters in my mind.

No one is trying to open a can of worms...but I understand your meaning. Some things are better left unsaid, but Registered B.A.S.S. Clubs can't do that. If there were an incident in marked restricted waters with a trigger happy Cowboy MP, there would be too many questions that could not be defended.

And Ferris is correct. If it is truly restricted, it should be off-limits to everyone and not up for individual interpretation. I see it as no difference than running a no-wake zone. Fishing in a no-fishing zone should carry the same penalty.

It sucks, because I like Foster Creek, especially the first 100 yards. But I don't make the law, I just have to live with them.

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BigCheese
Advanced Member



5599 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  15:57:17  Show Profile Send BigCheese a Private Message
I really hate to see this as I know some people like to fish this area.

Just my personal opinion here..... The Coast Guard determines no wake zones on the river and lake. It is clearly stated that it is unlawful to proceed threw a no wake zone in a manner that white water breaks from the bow (or something along those lines). If you break the law in a no wake zone you can be fined right? If another angler fishes the same tournament and observes you disobeying regulations you can be protested correct? With the info now brought present, it clearly states that you CAN NOT fish past the mouth of Foster Creek. So I would imagine you can be fined or protested in a tournament. I would imagine it would be a good idea for the tournament director to make this known before launch.

No offence to anyone but man I hate that someone brought this information out!!!

www.jasonreinke.com
"I don't fish for a living, I live to fish"
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Smokey Bear
Senior Member



USA
1307 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:05:50  Show Profile Send Smokey Bear a Private Message
About 5-6 years ago, I was fishing in Foster when one of those rubber attack boats loaded with SEALS approached me and my dad and explained that they were performing some drills, and asked us to leave the area until noon. That is the only time I have had anyone say anything to me about fishing back there. I'm fishing tomorrow, so I may just go back there and see what happens. If it were off limits, I think it would be posted like it is on the Cooper and surely the DNR officers would be aware. JMO

"Well, what happen was......"
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RangerBob
Senior Member



USA
2703 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:12:04  Show Profile  Visit RangerBob's Homepage Send RangerBob a Private Message
Smokey, you are mistaken. Those guys covered in mud in the rubber boat were actually Hardcore and Big Cheese getting ready to noodle...

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OneArmedFish
Average Member



USA
636 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:24:55  Show Profile Send OneArmedFish a Private Message
Well, I would certainly like an official determination from a living person of some degree of importance who would have jurisdiction over such matters before we rush to any determinations. I find it hard to believe that literally thousands of people fish in there yearly and this is the first we've heard of it. I would also think that if they were getting around to enforcing it, they would have made some sort of vigorous effort to post it at the mouth- it's not exactly an unpopular area for recreational activities.

If it's illegal and they are just now enforcing it, I think they're going to have a difficult time catching the horses after they're out of the barn.
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Triton186
Administrator



USA
7520 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:36:23  Show Profile Send Triton186 a Private Message
Agree 100% Scott.
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BigCheese
Advanced Member



5599 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  16:50:39  Show Profile Send BigCheese a Private Message
I agree it's BS....but a guy or two standing there with an M-4 or patrolling in a boat will make it very easy to enforce....I promise you that!!!

www.jasonreinke.com
"I don't fish for a living, I live to fish"
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crittergitter
Starting Member



USA
15 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  17:14:19  Show Profile Send crittergitter a Private Message
I dont have a dog in this fight because I dont fish up that way much but may have some insight about the rules. The weapons station has control over that area so what they say goes,however the state of south carolina has no say in that matter meaning that if you go in that creek and the rubber boat runs you out you are not in violation of a title 50 law (fish and game laws are title 50)therefore would not recieve a "ticket" from a game warden. Most of the tourneys (I think)are more concerned about state law e.g lifejackets,no wake,size and creel limits ect. Just my two cents worth but please make sure that whatever the clubs decide to do to make it very clear to the anglers before the start of a tourney. The only reason I "spoke up" was because I worked with dnr for 10yrs in the field and had to answer alot of questions pertaining to this situation.

Some days your the bug, Some days your the windshield.
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ShakeHeadTed@gmail.com
New Member



67 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  17:30:53  Show Profile Send ShakeHeadTed@gmail.com a Private Message
If it's against the rules, then it's against the rules (according to the Coast Guard comment above). By allowing people to fish that creek during a tournament would be an endorsment of allowing someone to break a known regulation. If they can break that regulation, then why can't they bring in a 11 7/8 inch fish and call it 12 inches? I am with Jason on this one, if you allow it in your tournaments you are opening yourself up to protests and a possible incident between the military and the club hosting the event. Plenty of other water to fish on that river.


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ProCraftSean
Advanced Member



6115 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2011 :  21:19:53  Show Profile Send ProCraftSean a Private Message
The only time I remember it being enforced was right after 911. They did have an armed boat at the mouth of Foster Creek and you were not allowed in there.

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Smokey Bear
Senior Member



USA
1307 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2011 :  01:12:17  Show Profile Send Smokey Bear a Private Message
I will be out there in about 6 hours. If I'm approached by the Weapons Station Police, I will see if they will explain what's going on. BUT, if that rubber boat loaded with SEALS greets me, I'll just move along...no questions asked!!


"Well, what happen was......"
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Wristpin
Moderator

USA
852 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2011 :  05:42:58  Show Profile Send Wristpin a Private Message
Hmmm... I am reading this that Foster Creek (para A11) is listed as a "Danger Zone when firing operations are present" Not a 24/7 "Restricted Zone" like the creeks down around the shipyard.

13) Danger zone. Those portions of unnamed tributaries and associated marshes of Back River and Foster Creek that are generally described as lying south of the main shoreline and extending southward to the northern shoreline of Big Island (U.S. Naval Reservation). Specifically, the area beginning at a point on the main shoreline which is the northern shore of an unnamed tributary of Back River at latitude 3259'19" N, longitude 7956'52" W, southwesterly to a point on or near the northern shoreline of Big Island at latitude 3259'11" N, longitude 7956'59" W; thence northwesterly to a point on the main shoreline, which is the northern shore of an unnamed tributary of Foster Creek, at latitude 3259'16" N, longitude 7957'11" W; thence easterly along the main shoreline, which is the northern shore of the unnamed tributaries of Foster Creek and Back River, back to the point of beginning at latitude 3259'19" N longitude 7956'52" W. The waters and associated marshes in this danger zone area are subject to impact by rounds and ricochets originating from a small arms range when firing is in progress.

(b) The regulations: (1) Unauthorized personnel, vessels and other watercraft shall not enter the restricted areas described in paragraphs (a)(1), (a)(2), and (a)(4) of this section at any time. NOT A11 FOSTER CREEK

(2) Personnel, vessels and other watercraft entering the restricted area described in paragraph (a)(5) of this section, shall proceed at normal speed and under no circumstances anchor, fish, loiter, or photograph until clear of the restricted area. NOT A11 FOSTER CREEK


(6) In the interest of National Security, Commanding Officer, U.S. Naval Weapons Station, Charleston, SC, may at his/her discretion, restrict passage of persons, watercraft and vessels in the areas described in paragraphs (a)(7), (a)(8) and (a)(11) of this section until such time as he/she determines such restriction may be terminated. THUS THE CLOSURE OF A11 FOSTER CREEK DURING 911

It sounds to me like they are chasing people out during firing operations, but that the base may allow access at other times. There are many areas like this on the Potomac/Chesepeake Bay. Normally, you get chased out only when the fish are biting like crazy!
Let's hope there is a sanity check and they only restrict the creek during firing operations.


Frickin' Air Force...You no longer need stickers on vehicles to get on the base, but they are clamping down on fishing Foster Creek. They probably give the MPs a ribbon for every ten fisherman they chase out!


***Disclaimer: I am a Sea Lawyer who has specialized at giving free legal advice at drinking establishments in at least 12 different countries. I hope this free, tortured, legal analysis has proven helpful***

Edited by - Wristpin on 04/08/2011 06:21:47
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